S2 E2 Amy Smithers & A Client's Perspective

Louise Parker
Hello and welcome to the Digital PR Podcast with me, Louise Parker, and my lovely co-host, Steve Baker. Due to intense popular demand, we are back for a second season and we will be again chatting to some of the digital PR greats, discussing the ins and outs of our industry. This season, we’ll be touching on topics like crisis comms, freelancing, the great office debate, digital PR in America, and we’ll also be getting the perspectives of in-house clients and journalists on what they really think about digital PRs. Excitingly, this season we also have a sponsor! All six episodes are sponsored by our friends at Coveragebook. We all use Coveragebook in the Propellernet team and so do agencies and brands all over the world. It’s an amazing tool that creates PR reports in minutes, drastically reducing the time that would typically be spent on reporting. Steve, would you like to know a fun fact?

Stephen Baker
Yes, please.

Louise Parker
One agency team saved $2,000 of PR budget every month when they switched to using the tool. Pretty good. What we love about it is that it gives you realistic, industry-leading metrics that you don’t need to have a data science degree to understand. It does all the clippings for you, so no more boring copying and pasting. And it just looks super snazzy, so you don’t have to be a designer to showcase your coverage like a pro. You can visit coveragebook.com and sign up for a free trial to see why some of the best digital PR practitioners in the world depend on Coveragebook. Alright, on to our episode.

Stephen Baker
Today’s episode is all about digital PR from a client’s perspective and we’re delighted to be joined by one of our own clients, Amy Smithers, Head of Communications at estate agent comparison site, GetAgent. Amy has a wealth of experience having started out as a reporter and editor, moving into roles working as a digital PR manager and strategist before ending up client side at GetAgent. Needless to say, we are very excited to ask her what it’s like in-house versus agency side. Welcome, Amy. Thank you very much for making time to come on the podcast. How are you?

Amy Smithers
I’m great. Thank you very much and thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Stephen Baker
Good stuff. Let’s start. I gave a brief intro there, but could you tell us and our listeners a little bit about your career to date?

Amy Smithers
Well, you kind of did a pretty good job of covering it off, actually. So yeah, I originally started my career in journalism, particularly lifestyle, travel, interiors, that kind of thing. And then after a while, I switched over to the dark side, over to PR. And then not long after that, I kind of carved my niche into doing PR and digital PR in the property industry. And that was when I got my role heading up the outreach and digital PR team at Zoopla. So since then, I have been pretty much solidly working across the property sector with brands such as eMove, Mushroom, and now here at GetAgent. But I have dabbled in agencies along the way, but in-house is absolutely where I like to be.

Stephen Baker
Lovely stuff. And just quickly pick up on one thing there, like why property? Was there any kind of specific reason? Was it something you fell into and just loved or have you always been interested in that sector?

Amy Smithers
Well, because I was doing interiors and I was doing architecture and things like that, it was kind of a natural thing for me to accidentally fall into, really, because it wasn’t planned. I just kind of got this great opportunity at Zoopla. And then when I started there, because they’d had such a vast amount of data and everybody has a house, everybody has a home, there was so much potential in the property sector. and that’s taking a step away from what people originally thought of as property. So you don’t necessarily need to be focused on the bricks and mortar, like the physical buildings. It’s people’s homes, it’s people’s lives, it’s how close you are to a school, how many fish and chip shops delivered to you on a Friday night. You can make everything into a property story. So when I get new people on my team, that’s one of the first things I tell them. You can basically make anything related to a property. You can make property PR out of anything, whether that’s street names, for instance. So we did something the other day because one of my new people on my team, Kim, she is really, really into Taylor Swift. and there was loads of Taylor Swift stuff happening in the news so we decided to do a Taylor Swift campaign around like Taylor Swift themed street names and things like that so like you can basically shoehorn property into any topic. It’s true.

Louise Parker
And it makes it a lot of fun. You mentioned how you have dabbled in agency life before but obviously it seems like in-house is your thing. How do you find working in-house and is there actually anything that you do miss from agencies?

Amy Smithers
Yeah, so it’s safe to say that I love being in-house, right? So I love getting to know how a brand ticks, the decisions behind the decisions. So understanding what the other teams are doing and how that can be leveraged to make great content. Love all of that. Yeah, being in-house gives me a great understanding of the brand. So I can focus on the strategies that have the biggest impact. and I love the immersion into like one brand and the ability to have a direct impact in that brand’s success so I can see what my impact is doing in the long run and we can sort of plan much further in the future with in-house. However, there are aspects of agency life that I do miss obviously not just the beanbags and you know all of the traditional whatever Exactly, you know, all of the fun agency stuff. But I do quite miss the wide range of clients and projects, you know, so agency life obviously allowed me to work with various industries. And that was super exciting. And like, there was no limit to the ideas, for example. So it is a bit of a trade off. But you know, I value the connection and understanding I have with like my brand, and how involved, like how I’m involved in much more than PR at GetAgent.

Stephen Baker
Could you give us a bit, obviously you work with us, we mentioned that in the introduction, so full transparency, you are one of our clients, but could you give us a bit of an idea about how you work with agencies? In our experience, every client sort of approaches it slightly differently, like we provide you with, you know, kind of coverage, links, results, like what are you going to do with that kind of thing and where do they go? How do you do it?

Amy Smithers
Yeah, so working with agencies like Propellernet is crucial for our brand success. While GetAgent is a rapidly growing business, we still are generally quite small, so we don’t have the resources in-house to do all of the fun and exciting things that we get to do with Propellernet. You have all of the teams and the resources at hand that we can really go far with our PR ideas. So that’s a key thing. And also, agencies provide a valuable external perspective and, you know, specialized expertise, like, and it complements our in-house efforts. So it’s not like an us and them sort of situation. It’s more of a how can we work together and pool all of our resources to kind of get to where we need to be. And when it comes to results that you share with me and that kind of thing, I use that to evaluate the effectiveness of our campaigns and basically justify the monthly fee. So what is the ROI on how many links can we get, and how can we re-refine our strategies and decisions from there? I also use the reports to showcase our PR efforts to key stakeholders within the company, and then the rest of the company also quite like to hear what fun stuff we’ve been up to as well, because we do have some quite fun campaigns, and all the people in the department or in the company are very much like, this is what you do, this is what I do,

Louise Parker
So how far up does agencies’ work go? Because obviously most of the time it’s like they work with their direct client, you might know your client’s boss, and then that maybe can be it, but does the results and the positives of the campaigns, does it make it higher than that? How far can those results go?

Amy Smithers
Yeah, well, we have a meeting once a month with our founders, so our CEO and our CTO, and we also have other key people in that meeting as well. So we do a monthly sort of wrap up of all of the marketing activity. And one of the elements of that is, how are the agencies getting on? So I have to then be like, okay, well, we’ve had, you know, this much coverage, this many links, this has kind of led to this, this and this, you know? So like, we kind of analyze all of the data, and everyone is very aware of what’s going on.

Louise Parker
Because I think sometimes, yeah, you feel sometimes as an agency that you’re kind of just, you do your thing and then you’re like, I hope they’re happy, I hope they liked it. And then you don’t know kind of where it goes. So it’s nice to know that sometimes it can go straight to the top.

Amy Smithers
It literally goes straight to the top every month. All of the information goes all the way. And it comes from my side and it also comes from the SEO side as well.

Stephen Baker
So you have experience of working in digital PR and now you’ve gone in-house and you’ve explained, you know, what you love about working in-house. But our next question is, has being client-side changed your thoughts on digital PR? Would you say you’re more cautious now you work directly for a brand, perhaps? Or is the opposite true?

Amy Smithers
No, absolutely. I’m definitely more cautious. So working on the client-side has given me a deeper appreciation for strategy and the nuances of digital PR. So I definitely understand the importance of aligning our PR efforts with our brand’s identity and goals. And while I am more cautious, I’m also more focused on generating quality results that resonate with our target audience. It’s about building a lasting brand reputation, not just links. And that requires a different level of consideration. which may sound slightly boring, and especially to anyone who knows my PR ideas, because they’re always a bit wild and a bit outside of the box. I like to think quite big and creative with my PR ideas, but that was more for me, I think, not necessarily for the brand. So I’m definitely a bit more strategic now when it comes to ideas and their impact.

Louise Parker
Yeah, that makes total sense. I think it’s interesting you say like, yeah, for yourself, because sometimes you’re like, oh, that just would be really fun to do. And then we have people like our strategists, like internally at Rebellion that are like, let’s just remind ourselves of why we’re doing this. So it’s a similar thing. But I guess, yeah, because you’re every day you’re in the brand, it’s just so much more that you’re kind of front of mind. We were wondering, we have seen a number of in-house people talk about the kind of annoyances, maybe, of having agencies cold email them, cold call them, cold LinkedIn them, all these kind of ways that, you know, it’s a sales process, you get it, but do you get much of that? Is that a thing that happens often? And what are your kind of thoughts on that way of agencies trying to approach a potential new client?

Amy Smithers
Yeah, I do get quite a few actually, mainly via email and it’s just a bit of a one-size-fits-all sort of blanket pitch email as far as I can usually tell. And while I do appreciate them taking the initiative to reach out to me, what would stand out to me is the personalised touch. So agencies that take the time to understand our brand and its challenges and then tailor their pitches accordingly. So definitely they capture my attention much better. So a generic one-size-fits-all approach doesn’t really work as well. But I understand that it’s tricky for agencies to do a lot of research and a lot of effort for basically what is sliding into a brand’s DMs, right? without any guarantee of that it’s going to be read, let alone followed up on. So personally, for me, I don’t ever really use cold emails to decide who to work with. I like to do my own research whenever I have an agency to hire, because I like to find the best. So I don’t know where and when I would ever use a cold email. because it’s all about timing as well. They have to get you when you’re literally thinking about it and I think that’s a really unusual time to get one.

Stephen Baker
Yeah, for sure. I’ve often wondered, it must work, right? Because agencies still do that. And again, for complete transparency, we’ve never done it at Propellernet, like the cold email approach. We’ll make contacts with people at events and things and start talking to them, but it’s never a cold email. But agencies do it and it is a valid tactic because it must work. But you’re right, like it’s got to come at the exact right moment or plant a seed maybe for later in life and it’s got to be bespoke. Otherwise, it’s just, yeah, like, hey, we’re an agency. Do you want to work with us? But on that note, like you mentioned, you know, you like to sort of cherry pick the best and sort of have a real think about it, which makes perfect sense. How do you go about building your pitch lists when you’re looking for a new agency?

Amy Smithers
Well, it involves careful research. So I look for agencies with a proven track record of success. So as well as ones with, you know, some experience of the property industry or related sectors. or transferable skills. So using like case studies and things and even recommendations from other people in the industry, like industry colleagues or even just my general colleagues who’ve worked with them in previous roles or whatever, that all plays a big role too. And I also prioritize agencies that showcase like innovative or exciting approaches and stand out from the crowd because there are so many agencies at the moment and you just wouldn’t know where to begin. So the ones that do things a bit differently or the ones that stand out for the reasons, the good reasons obviously, they’re the ones that I definitely prioritise.

Louise Parker
Do you pay much attention to awards like the UK Search Awards or the Drum Search Awards, things like that?

Amy Smithers
Yes and no. It’s not the be-all and end-all because I know that some agencies prioritize awards over others. Some agencies don’t care about awards and don’t put themselves forward and things like that, whereas others, awards are their life. They spend absolutely thousands and thousands every year to go in for awards. So you take it with a pinch of salt, but it’s a nice way of showcasing the innovation and the interesting campaigns that they can do. So if the campaign has won an award, it’s still probably better than the other campaigns that went in for that same award. So you know it’s a good campaign and they’re good at what they do, but I don’t know whether, oh we’ve won 47 awards this year, is

Louise Parker
Yeah, so it’s maybe not the number. I guess it kind of helps as a prompt to look into that case study for that campaign and stuff like that. Exactly.

Amy Smithers
As I said before, I prioritise the innovative and exciting approaches and I feel that if you are looking at people who have won awards those campaigns do tend to fall into that category a little bit more because that’s why they’ve been put through for the award, that’s why they’ve won the award. So it also helps you to, and it’s also good to see, and then you’ll start to recognize the names of the agencies that do fall into these categories. You know, okay, oh I’ve heard of them and I know that they’ve, you know, done this, this and this. So it helps you have those agencies front of mind, I think, as well.

Stephen Baker
Yeah. So it’s part of the mix, but not the sole factor. Let’s talk a little bit more about the pitch process itself. It’s one of my favourite things, agency side. I absolutely love it. You get to meet new people, think about new things, absolutely love it. But what’s it like from your side? Because it must be quite exciting. You’ve spent time researching and shortlisting these agencies. You get them in, but how do you run a pitch process and how do you find it?

Amy Smithers
being on the brand side during a pitch process is fun and challenging and it is quite hard work because you’ve got all these agencies kind of all bombarding you with ideas and it’s all like, oh, we will do this for you, do this for you, do this for you. And it’s like, okay, well, where do we start? So, as I mentioned earlier, agencies that stand out the best are the ones who tailor their presentations to a brand specific challenges. So show how your strategies align with our goals, demonstrate a clear understanding of the competitive landscape. So what are our competitors up to? To use data to support your claims and provide a glimpse of potential results that we can expect and things like that, but not over promise. But one of the main things I would suggest though when pitching to a brand is to not just suggest the obvious because agencies often forget that the people who work at the brand are extremely knowledgeable about the industry and that brand and they’ve probably already thought about what you’re suggesting. it’s probably already gone up the ranks and then got stopped by someone. They’ve probably already thought of it. They’ve already tried to do it. It’s probably well on its way. So going in with some glaringly obvious campaign ideas or suggestions could potentially come off as a bit patronizing. So just showcase what you can bring to the table and why we should hire your agency is the most important.

Louise Parker
That’s actually an interesting point around showing potential ideas, because I guess one of the flaws is, like you said, you could suggest something where either another agency has already come in and they’ve already said the idea, so that doesn’t feel great, or you know that you’ve already tried it yourself and for whatever reason it hasn’t gone anywhere. I have actually seen some people talk about in new business pitches how they don’t put together bespoke new ideas for the potential new client. I think for some reasons around maybe the client might take it or maybe, you know, it’s a lot of time that goes into it and all this kind of stuff. What’s your opinion on people putting in like, this is what we would do for you. This is our idea. Is it necessary or is it something that you can understand why people might not include it?

Amy Smithers
I absolutely understand why they wouldn’t include it, or they might not include it, but from a deciding factor from a brand, I need to see that. I need to see what kinds of ideas, even if they’re just example ideas, because I think the ones that we had in the Propellernet pitch were example ideas. I don’t think we actually ended up going with any of them, but there were some really mad ones. And I was like, I love these. And there were some really great ones. And it was like, oh, you understood how you could take our brand and do it in a completely different way that we hadn’t done before. And I think that was super important. And it was one of the reasons why we ended up choosing you in the end. And if we hadn’t had those ideas, then how are we going to compare how you would be to work with? Because I’m sure everyone has great statistics on their presentation desks, everyone has all of the awards or everyone has all of the things. So it’s actually your creativity and how you come up with ideas and how you can turn our brand into coverage is what we’re, at the end of the day, judging you on. So if we don’t see that, how can we possibly make that decision?

Stephen Baker
Yeah. I think that’s really interesting because I totally agree, Amy. You have to see the creative thinking. And I remember being in the pitch actually, and we obviously thought carefully about the ideas, but I always think these are ideas for the pitch to show examples of our thinking. They’re not necessarily the ones we’re going to go with. And again, in my experience, people get almost too caught up in exactly how it’s going to work and all this. It’s like, No, no, let’s just use this as an example because we don’t know these people or their brand yet as well as we would want to. So we’re just going on what we have and we need to show them how we’re thinking about it so far. So I’m glad that came across when we pitched to you. I was interested just to know, almost like a side question, how important is chemistry So when we’re interviewing, me and Lou are interviewing people to join the team at Propellernet, we obviously need to have examples of their experience and possibly a bit of a task, but quite a large part of it is like, would I want to work with this person? How important is it for you?

Amy Smithers
It is actually really important because you don’t want to be dreading that weekly call. I have, like, not naming any names whatsoever, but I have worked with agencies before and I’m like, oh god, is that time again? I have to speak to them. And it’s like, like, I don’t get that now. Like, we have the wonderful Abby, Chloe, Megan, who ring us, like, and we have a great chat. Like, we get to, like, down to, you know, the numbers. We do all of that. But they also are kind of like my friends now. Like, I’ve known them for, I don’t know, 18 months or something, and I speak to them all the time and they ask me about, you know, how my house moves going and, you know, all the kind of like, they ask me about my life and I know sort of what’s going on there and I definitely think that is a great way to work because they are, at the end of the day, my colleagues and I want to talk to them the same way as I talk to, even though I definitely talk to them less than I talk to people like currently, like, you know, I get agent, but I like the fact that they are nice people that I can chat to and I think it’s very important.

Louise Parker
Yeah. I mean, it’s the same thing with clients. It’s always just really nice when you connect on that slightly more personal level. It doesn’t mean you’re necessarily either seeing each other face to face. It can be done over Zoom and things like that. But it makes such a difference with working with people that you feel that you’re not just there just to do a service and then you say goodbye. It’s like a nice kind of working relationship and you feel part of the team. I guess other than having a great kind of working relationship and feeling comfortable with your team, do you have any other kind of green flags when it comes to working with an agency? Things where you’re like, oh yeah, this is going to be a really good agency because they’re doing this, this and this. And then also I would like to know about your red flags. So the things where you’re like, oh God, they’ve done this, this does not bode well.

Amy Smithers
Okay, well, that’s a good question. I might start with the red flags, actually. So, red flags. As I mentioned earlier, oh, we’re promising. So, agencies that promise quick fixes or overnight success and they’re like, oh yes, we can get you ranking number one by next month or, you know, have a hundred links from 90 DA sites by Wednesday. And it’s like, no. Authenticity and transparency are vital. And also agencies that are evasive about their methods or they’re unwilling to share processes are also concerning. So I think there’s got to be a lot of back and forth, and if there isn’t, then I’m a bit wary. Not that I want to be micromanaging in any way, I’m quite happy for you to do your own thing. But if I have a question, I’d like to know the answer to it. I don’t want anyone being sort of cagey. But there is another red flag to me, actually, in general, which is staff turnover. I’ve worked with quite a few agencies in the past where our account manager changes every couple of months because, you know, one person or other has left or then there’s been like team shifts and things like that. And I like working with good companies, ones that respect their staff and the people who work there enjoy working there. So if the staff are respected, that leads on to the clients being respected, and I definitely think that’s an often overlooked but key part But yeah, so as I said before, we’ve been propelling it now for like a year and a half and we’ve had Abby, Chloe and Megan as our team the entire time. So there’s been no changeovers, it’s been those three and they know our brand, they know what we like, we know what we don’t like. So they’re like, this is kind of how we’d phrase it on your behalf and things like that. And then they know our tone of voice and that’s definitely a green flag for sure. Another green flag actually is understanding why brands make certain decisions on campaigns. So if we reject an idea, it’s not personal. And even though you know that it’ll get a lot of coverage and links, to still understand that that decision was done for a reason. We aren’t trying to make your life difficult. We’d love those links and coverage just as much as you would, but there are other factors at play. And if we’ve made that decision, it will be for a reason. So, agencies that are understanding of that, that’s definitely a green flag.

Louise Parker
Do you think sometimes it could be the case where, you know, X idea gets turned down and you get the reasons why and then three months later you’ve got another idea session and something very similar comes up again and you’re like, I have told you before that for these reasons, like, is it that kind of thing that gets a bit frustrating?

Amy Smithers
Exactly, it does, yeah. And it’s like, we know, we’ve told you that we can’t talk about X, Y and Z thing, or we can’t do this for this reason. And it’s like, we’ve said this, and I know that it would be a good story. Like, I know what makes a good story. I have been doing this for years too. but it’s not going to work for us right now. So it does kind of get slightly tedious. I understand that they know it’s a good idea and they are passionate about wanting to have successful campaigns, but sometimes it’s just not going to work. But one of the things that actually comes up quite often and one of the things I have to turn down for a lot of agencies And because we do property and we do a lot of house price things and we do a lot of national indexes, there is often kind of north-south divides in results. and there is often like richer areas come out better than poorer areas and the way that the campaigns sometimes get phrased it’s like oh well this place here is the most beautiful and this place here is trash. and you know this place here is the worst place to live in the world because you know and it’s actually no it’s just because it’s a poorer place so it doesn’t rank as high but these ideas get pitched to me basically the entire time I’ve been doing property PR and it’s basically just saying oh well Chelsea wins the most beautiful gardens and you know Hull is the worst you know it’s like well it’s not because of that like that’s not how it works so it’s it’s upsetting really. And we’re like, we can’t do that.

Stephen Baker
When you’ve got down to the campaigns, when you’ve picked the ideas and they’ve started getting coverage, links, we’re really interested in asking what’s most important to you. There’s obviously quite a lot of discussion in the industry at the moment versus quantity, quality of links, relevance, all that kind of stuff. But when you’re sharing results back to the rest of the company, Do you focus on kind of things like number of links or pieces of coverage or the kind of titles that they’re on? Because we know from working with, obviously, there’s like a number of key titles. It’s really useful to be on regularly. But for you, what’s most important?

Amy Smithers
Well, both aspects are important. But to me, the publication titles, I think, carry more weight. Quality over quantity is my mantra here. So high authority, relevant publications align better with GetAgent’s plan building goals. It’s not just about the numbers. Obviously, numbers are great. If we could have all of them, you know, that’d be fabulous. But it’s about the impact and visibility of the placements and how they can impact GetAgent going forward. That’s mainly it.

Stephen Baker
That makes sense. A side question that has just occurred to me that I’m quite interested in. We know from working in PR and being experienced in the PR world that not everything, despite best efforts, works. It just doesn’t. It’s hard to predict. And as me and Lou have said lots, it’s not rocket science, but it’s not exact science. like how often or how much do you have to kind of, you said you had those meetings with right away to the top of the company. How often do you get kind of questioned or have to kind of explain that side of PR if at all? Because we do to clients quite a bit where it’s like, oh, this thing hasn’t worked. And honestly, we’re not 100% sure why. And you have to be honest about it. Do you have to do a similar thing? Do you have a similar issue?

Amy Smithers
I do. And I think, thankfully now, because we’ve had to explain this many times over all of the years that we’ve been doing PR, I feel like people know now. They still want the ROI. They’re like, oh, we paid for this month, so we kind of still want all the links. But it doesn’t work like that. PR is very fluid. PR is also a third party task, which a lot of people forget. So even if I put all of my time into doing the best campaign ever, even if you put all of your time into doing the best campaign ever, at the end of the day, it’s not up to either of us whether that campaign succeeds or not. we could have done the best job in the world. We could have made the best campaign in the world. If something else is going on in the media, or if the market is different, or whatever’s happening, it’s not down to us and not down to how hard we’re working. And that’s something that’s quite difficult to grasp. especially when you’re having to present and explain where the marketing budget’s gone and where the results are. So it’s tough but I do think when it comes back, basically the next month will then be much better and the results will be back in and actually it was all fine.

Louise Parker
Yeah, I think also when you can show that over like six months, 12 months, you can plot a graph out and you can see you go up and then you go down and then it goes into the middle and I feel like then people start to understand. I totally do get it though, like if you’ve never worked with a PR person or agency or whatever before, you do think I put money in, I get results out. So why is this not happening this month? But luckily it sounds like you’ve explained it enough times that hopefully it’s going to be easier for you now.

Amy Smithers
But there was one key thing last year. We had a really big campaign that we were super excited about. It was one of those campaigns that I was really annoyed that I didn’t think of myself. and I was like, damn it. It was literally the main one that you’ve ever pitched to me that I was fuming that it wasn’t my idea. So I knew it was going to be great, it was going to be the best ever, and then it launched and the next day the queen died.

Stephen Baker
I remember this one now. Yes, I thought you were going to mention this one.

Amy Smithers
Yes, yes. And then, yeah, basically that was the end of that. Because, yeah, it kind of completely changed everything. Yeah, so it was so annoying because it was going to be so good.

Louise Parker
Yeah, it’s funny. I feel like that example, it was one of the examples you’d always use to explain what could potentially happen. You’re like, you never know, the Queen might die. And then it’s like, well, eventually it’s going to happen. And there is going to be stories that are out just before then or on that day. And yeah, it is what everyone was bracing themselves for. And then it actually happens.

Amy Smithers
It did, exactly. But that conversation wasn’t too difficult because everyone understood. They were like, oh yeah, okay, well, the Queen’s died, so you didn’t get any coverage that week.

Louise Parker
I imagine we’ll have some in-house people listening to this podcast, but I also imagine that a lot of people listening will be from the agency side. So I guess this is your opportunity to share. Is there anything that you think that digital PRs, agency people, really kind of need to be more aware of when it comes to their clients?

Amy Smithers
Yeah. So when working in-house, we often juggle multiple responsibilities beyond just digital PR. So understanding the broader business context and being flexible with us and our timelines and priorities is crucial because in-house things can change at the top of a hat. one time we’re focusing on this one thing, and then the next, actually, the whole business has decided we’re going to be refocusing on something else. So priorities, timelines, and things like that all change. And being understanding of that is pretty crucial. and also the understanding that whilst an agency may only dedicate a few hours a week to a brand, this is our entire working week. So this brand is our entire working week. So even with some, you know, of the other smaller brands who may not have a giant monthly retainer and that they often get overlooked or, you know, are seen to be less important to some agencies, but to the people who work in those companies full time, it’s their whole role and they care about their company and they have trusted their agency to help them grow and succeed. So whether they’re tiny little companies with a tiny little retainer, they’re not important to the people who work there. And I think that’s really important because they may not be as important to you as some like big conglomerate brand that brings in thousands and thousands every month. But to the people who work there, it is their job. And I think that’s something that agencies can often overlook.

Louise Parker
It’s something that I’ve heard before, like when people are deciding what agencies to go with. Obviously, sometimes you see these big names that maybe work with like Coca-Cola and Nike and stuff. And then, yeah, like you said, if you are a smaller brand, you know, anecdotally, I’ve been told that you might be kind of bottom of the priority list because you’re not Coca-Cola and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, I think that’s an important point to make, like just kind of respect all your clients like they really care about the work they’re doing so yeah no matter how much people are paying and stuff if you’ve got them signed on your books like give them your respect.

Stephen Baker
Yeah get the same level of service just maybe slightly less time because that’s what they’re paying but that’s yeah. I think we’re ready for our final question, Amy. Okay. So I’m very, very interested to see how you answer this and we will be making notes because it will probably decide our future as a sort of client agency relationship. Okay. What do you think the future of digital PR is? Where do you think it’s going? What do you see?

Amy Smithers
The future of digital PR is, it holds exciting possibilities. and I know it’ll be pretty cliche and a lot of people will be probably saying, oh, they expect deeper integration to data and AI and PR strategies, but I’m coming at that from a different perspective. I’m not really talking about how to use AI in campaigns, but I think maybe more about the general processes. So in terms of the tools that we use, I fully expect tools like Scission, Roxhill, Vuleo, etc. to all go completely or massively AI in the next year or so because making media lists and things will be completely different because they will be able to work out which journalists can be the right ones to add to the pitches and things. So I think AI is going to be important, but not just in the way that we first thought, you know, oh, let’s do some campaigns about AI or let’s do AI-based campaigns. Not just that. But yeah, looking ahead maybe a bit further, you know, I do think, and I know this is again talked about quite a lot, is more about authentic brand storytelling. So, you know, a bigger fusion of like PR, content marketing, even influencer strategies, you know, all centred around this authentic brand storytelling, I think that will be the way that the PR goes in the future, because more integrated campaigns across all of marketing to really hammer home the information.

Stephen Baker
Well, firstly, delighted you gave such a positive answer, because our fear was you were about to drop a bombshell and say, actually, I think digital PR is dead. we’re going to replace you with an army of robots in six months. But you came at it from an interesting angle, I think, with the media list creation. I think AI will kind of help us. And a lot of people have talked about this, like, how can we use AI to help us? Because a lot of people fear it’s going to replace them. But I don’t think you can replace easily great copyright in creativity, understanding the brand, human connection. I think that bit all stays, but then it’s how it’s going to kind of either speed up or help a process or kind of laser focus like media lists and sort of those understandings. So yeah, and integrated campaigns as well. I mean, that’s kind of what every brand wants to do, but it’s hard, right? So like if we can get that right, because it does work extremely well when it’s done well. So that’s a great answer. Thank you, Amy. As ever, we are probably going to struggle for our outro because we worked so hard on the intro, the questions and the discussion. So once again, I’m going to throw this over to you, Lou, to wrap up the episode.

Louise Parker
Difficult. Amy, thank you so much for joining us. That was really, really interesting. I really enjoyed all your answers.

Stephen Baker
This is why I throw it over to Lou.

Louise Parker
It’s been a pleasure speaking to you and hope you enjoy the rest of the day and hope everyone listening has enjoyed the podcast too.

Stephen Baker
Thank you, Amy.

Amy Smithers
Yes, thank you very much.